Do templates need to be broken down more?

[NC Software]

I started the process of updating my site to the latest stable build and had to back out and revert back to 3.11.01, the template changes were too much! It would be nice if you all could either add more templates to further break down sections or use variables or replacements etc. as if you simply add something like the WHCMS check it is crazy how it requires changes in templates!

You all need to seriously evaluate the complexity of an upgrade in regards to templates, but also have a system where we can "close" our site so end users (non-admins) see a temporary site closed message while we upgrade templates. Otherwise everyone sees the heinous changes taking place real time. I also need to create a separate test site so that I can get my templates updated and then copy and paste the content over to my production site as this latest update really threw a wrench in the works!

[Siora]

I agree that having to redo templates after every upgrade is tedious and rediculous. I don't think templates should change much or there should be a way to see the changes so that we know what and how to make the change rather then a simple over write.

[craigbrass]

Kayako should create some kind of change list between versions I think then people can just hunt out what they need to change.

[Jamie Edwards]

I agree that we need to start providing a changelog of templates in between releases, and we will start to do that.

Regarding any modifications to the template system that you suggest, please post them in the feature requests forum.

[Dynadata]

I would suggest the following:
Do not change any templates by an upgrade automaticly.
Just write some small manual that will say which file('s) you'll need to open and which lines you need to add or change.

[Jamie Edwards]

Hi Dynadata,

Good suggestion; we would never attempt an automatic upgrade utillity except for templates that have not been modified; it would be far too messy and a lot of work for a good result in only a few number of cases.

[craigbrass]

Yea, auto upgrades don't work. X-Cart's upgrade system clearly proves this.

[ecornet]

Originally Posted by Siora

I agree that having to redo templates after every upgrade is tedious and rediculous. I don't think templates should change much or there should be a way to see the changes so that we know what and how to make the change rather then a simple over write.

I have to redo my templates manually after an upgrade?! That will take me hours!

[Siora]

Yup, mine will take more then hours. My site is heavily modded with joomla and to redo all the work will be a few days worth of effort.

[craigbrass]

One of the reasons it is better for Kayako to release updates less frequently but with lots of bug fixes / feature requests implemented when they do.

[NC Software]

The architecture of the code using sufficient templates and replacement variables would ease the template upgrade process. Again, they have a great role model - vBulletin.

[Ryan Lederman]

In v4 it is likely that we will provide an automatic "diffing" tool that can show you which parts of a template have changed so that you can merge the changes in.

[NC Software]

Thanks Ryan, however, that doesn't solve the problem. I use Araxis Merge as my DiffMerge tool but the problem remains. Finding what has changed and even more so merging in the details is more and more complicated. The more you can isolate your code such as your growing IF statements (modernbill, then added WHCMS) the less we have to change in templates. Study vBulletin and how they break down their templates further and use replacement variables nicely to assemble them. It makes the diffmerge process much easier and less time consuming and error prone.