Opera WYSIWYG when?

[nibb]

Its really incredible that almost on the year 2010 Kayako doesnt support Opera browser in the WYSIWYG editor. Thats on the news, faq, well all places where the WYSIWYG has to be. This is to be a product that is up to technology today?

Did Kayako realized that most of their clients are companies?

Do they also realize that Opera is the most widely user browser in a corporate enviroment?

I know most people use Firefox, and I use it too. But Opera is the most robust browser regarding security, functions and performance.

Its very popular, its like its not used by no one.

Is is so hard just to update the WYSIWYG editor to support Opera? I do know there are WYSIWYG editors that support Opera.

Take WordPress for example where the WYSIWYG editor works with all browsers. Why dont use the same if its free open source?

Im sure its probably the same reason why there stil isnt a liveclient app for Linux and why there Windows Mobile version is so lame where others support basically even livechat from a phone.

Thats also one of the reasons why I dont pay the updates and im sure allot dont. Because besides bug fixes there isnt anything new at all. At least in 2 years I have not see 1 new function in the updates or improvements, and this are things that are really fast and easy to implement. I wonder if Kayako has people programming it or the original programmers left the company.

This is a good critic, and I would love to pay updates but if it brings something new to me. And this Opera WYSIWYG is not like is something new, i ratter threat this a bug since Opera is a very popular browser, and something that doesnt work in it, ok i can live with it, but something so important like the WYSIWYG which makes me change browser each time i want to use some html inside Kayako I qualify it as a miserable bug that makes my daily use miseral.

[craigbrass]

As far as I am aware, it is Opera at fault here in that they are not allowing the WYSIWYG editors to work. Thats what I remember reading on one of the WYSIWYG editor forums anyway.

[nibb]

Originally Posted by craigbrass

As far as I am aware, it is Opera at fault here in that they are not allowing the WYSIWYG editors to work. Thats what I remember reading on one of the WYSIWYG editor forums anyway.

Dont tell me your one of those that put all the blame on Opera. Like designers when something doesnt show correctly on Opera they blame it to the browser.

I really dont think so. Opera is for example the only browser that fully suppports the approved html code. That means if something shows well in Opera it will do in all other browsers but no the other way around. I had big parts of my site not showing correctly, including javascripts with Opera. Yes, Opera doesnt like bad javascripts. When I started to digg around i found that is was bad programming, and searching more I confirmed that it really was and that was the reason it did not worked correctly.

I think the editor is more related to how Opera works regarding security. People blame it there, that it doesnt allow this or that. That is actually not fully true either, it doesnt allow insecure code, but it allows allot. Just look at all the Widgets created.

As for blaming it on Opera that just a very bad excuse, because good softwares supports good browsers or the most used at least. An as I said before look at Wordpress which is Free. You dont have a problem with the editor there on Opera. And I also tested allot of other open source scripts and very popular CMS system and they all work on Opera. So I dont think this is something that Opera doesnt allow. Just take the code from Wordpres, wrap it up and put it on Kayako. Its a more simple editor but it works.

I dont think its also hard to detect when the browser is Opera and load an alternative WYSIWYG editor compatible with Opera. like some programs do, or if they dont they tell you its not supported with Opera.

The problem is Kayako is lazy in development. I dont see a single new function in almost 3 years. It will be 3 this end year. Thats is 3 years !!!! And when we talk about software and tecnology where every second counts that is allot.

I see programmers that work alone releasing 1 week updates for some products they develop and they cant in 3 years.

I dont think the original programmers work in Kayako anymore or there would absolutely no reason why this is freezed state. One more reason why they have opened code because the community here seems to release more addons and stuff then Kayako themselfs.

If this is so, they should release it as open source and just than us all for the money we paid before.

Dont get me wrong, I love Kayako, except for the support that is useless, the software works. Not all, and it has terrible bugs, some years old but still it does the main job. What I dont see is any incentive at all for releasing new functions. Im not asking for a whole new version but just something new from time to time.

Once someone said there isnt any need for new releases when something works. I dont bit that. In this marked things change every day, browsers, OS, hardware, the way people interact together, the way people represent themself or use daily tecnology. So there must be a very good reason why its not further developed.

When was the last release of Kayako and what did it had besides bug fixes? Nothing. It was just bug fixes, and before that the same. Maybe 2 updates a year. I dont think that is worth 49$ a year. Thats 4$ a month for nothing.

I pay other stuff more then 20$ a month and I do it gladly since they release new version almost every 30 days with bug fixes and new functions. Since my business depends on software that makes me also go further or advance and not staying in time.

[dapxin]

Jus to corrorborate. I use Opera everyday but I have not been pressed to need the WSIWYG, and it just gets the job done for me.

I will try the wsiswg thing though.

[craigbrass]

I was right but that has now changed (Opera Browser Wiki :: Textarea Editor).

TinyMCE will be the WYSIWYG editor for V4 so it will work fine then.

[John Haugeland]

Originally Posted by nibb

Do they also realize that Opera is the most widely user browser in a corporate enviroment?

This is very surprising to me, especially given some of the web stats I have access to. Is there a citation for this?

Originally Posted by nibb

Take WordPress for example where the WYSIWYG editor works with all browsers. Why dont use the same if its free open source?

Actually we do. Both WordPress and SupportSuite use TinyMCE as their editor.

Originally Posted by nibb

Im sure its probably the same reason why there stil isnt a liveclient app for Linux

That changed recently. LiveResponse now runs on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Originally Posted by nibb

Because besides bug fixes there isnt anything new at all.

Actually, there's a fair amount of new stuff; you might want to take another look. But, maybe more importantly, there are security updates that you really do want to get installed. Perhaps you should rethink this? It's up to you, of course, but we really do recommend getting those security updates in place.

Originally Posted by nibb

I wonder if Kayako has people programming it or the original programmers left the company.

The original developer, as well as pretty much all the significant historical development staff except Hiren Mehta, are still here; Hiren is still in the community. We've been hiring other developers; for example, I've only been here about a year. We're actually growing fast, and there's a whole lot of development in the v3 branch.

Originally Posted by nibb

This is a good critic, and I would love to pay updates but if it brings something new to me.

There's been a lot of new stuff, actually. Here's 3.30.02, for example.

[John Haugeland]

Originally Posted by nibb

Opera is for example the only browser that fully suppports the approved html code. That means if something shows well in Opera it will do in all other browsers but no the other way around.

Actually, Safari's HTML support is significantly ahead of Opera's. Opera is pretty toe to toe with Mozilla - it's got a lot of event model problems, and a lot of text display problems, but Opera's support for generated content is pretty advanced.

Still, you seem to be ascribing a lot of things to Opera as being this super-browser which aren't actually correct. querySelectorAll() is broken, the * selector is broken, getElementsByName() is broken, hotkeys are broken, the alt key doesn't show up in keymasks, the mouse button masks are wrong, rows[] and rowIndex are broken (something every other browser has had since gen4), the rules style property is broken, imports[] and rules[] properties for stylesheets are broken, addRule() and removeRule() aren't implemented, cssText doesn't read, createStyleSheet() is broken, removeProperty() only half-works, the page model is broken, the viewport model is broken, the context menu event doesn't fire, the cut and copy events don't exist (but the paste one does), the Javascript error propogator property isn't there at all, the focus event doesn't fire on links or checkboxes, onkeydown doesn't respond to bubble cancel, keypress fires for keys it's not supposed to, the resize event doesn't bubble properly, less than half of the W3C event properties are implemented in 9.51, mouse scrolling doesn't work, key intercept only bubbles downwards, none of the key event properties except shift and control are implemented, the detail property of a mouse button event uses the wrong mask, timeStamp is broken, wheelDelta is broken, screenX and screenY are completely wrong, elementFromPoint() is broken (which every other browser has had correct since 2005), scrollWidth and scrollHeight are calculated to the position model instead of the box model, offsetX and offsetY are to the content box instead of the padding box, and don't even get me started on the nightmare of simultaneous event propogation.

Let me be clear: Opera is not the standards fore-runner. It hasn't been since early Firefox 1 era. They haven't closed an ACID test first in a long time.

[John Haugeland]

And I should go on record as saying that I would honestly rather develop for ff, safari and ie than ff, safari and opera. Opera's got fewer flaws, but they're in way more important stuff that everyone else has correct. It's very easy to work around IE's problems; rather difficult to work around Opera's.

I develop for all six browsers, but if I could cut any single one of them, I'd cut opera before I cut IE, no question about it.

[craigbrass]

This is very surprising to me, especially given some of the web stats I have access to. Is there a citation for this?

I also did wonder that. Most large companies force IE...

[John Haugeland]

Indeed, I've never actually seen Opera in use in a corporate environment, except when things were being cross-browser tested, or in places where a staff member's personal preferences were the only determining factor. I've contracted to hundreds of companies, and I've literally never once seen a company mandated opera deployment.

Indeed, this post (the only one I can find about specifically corporate numbers for 2008) attributes 91% of the corporate browser market share to a mix of FF and IE, which is only three percent off of the numbers I see for the sites in my portfolio which I believe to be primarily corporate traffic. As such, I'm inclined to believe those numbers to be accurate. That page doesn't even mention Opera in passing. If my sites' numbers are somehow magically perfect (and they aren't, but they're the only place I can get a percentage for Opera), then Opera currently accounts for about three quarters of one percent of corporate traffic.

So I'd really like to know where this new data actually comes from.