Linux client

[Patiek]

Originally Posted by Ryan [K]

Software written to be cross-platform is of a lower caliber than its counterpart written specifically for one system. Java, for example, is extremely slow, and the resulting programs are barely usable.

What year are you living in, 1995? Java is fast. In many cases, java execution is even faster than c++ (as evident on many numerical benchmarks).

The real problem here can be found in your signature:

Ryan M. Lederman (ryan.lederman AT kayako.com)
Windows Development

I said screw it a little while ago when I read this thread and saw your comments and your signature. I have a few stubborn windows developer friends that spew forth similar garbage and I knew that there was little hope for support of multiple operating systems. Thus I started writing my own java program and php combination that can at least handle alerts with the option to add more. Not only that, I am using Mustang's implementation of SystemTray which makes it compatible with many operating systems with virtually no effort by the programmer.

Many products are now building or have built support for Linux and other operating systems unrelated to Windows. Those that refuse may think they only lose support from Linux or other communities, but in fact they gain bad publicity; there is nothing worse than a Linux user who cannot use a product because of a Windows developer.

[eiden]

What year are you living in, 1995? Java is fast. In many cases, java execution is even faster than c++ (as evident on many numerical benchmarks).

That's not quite my experience..

And what benchmarks are you referring to ? Do you have any links ?

[Patiek]

Originally Posted by eiden

That's not quite my experience..

And what benchmarks are you referring to ? Do you have any links ?

I have looked for some benchmarks and and I can't find any recent benchmarks (last few months) or any unbiased benchmarks (for both directions).

The argument that java is too slow to use is still horribly flawed of course. Larger applications as well as Java's HotSpot technology make java comparable to c++ in real applications. The only downside is the longer startup time (both in actual program startup as well as initial execution). However, after this point, java is very fast. On the upside the application can be used on multiple operating systems and automatically individually optimized on multiple operating systems with varying configurations.

With a start-up time of less than 5 seconds for such an alert system, an alert system that is run at startup, WHY is the development team turning a blind eye to Java, a language that allows them to be compatible with many operating systems while at the same time providing similar speed to their current application.

I am sorry, but the argument is garbage and you know it. So far the excuses have been "not enough demand" and "java is too slow". Both are garbage responses simply to shut off the millions of users of operating systems other than Windows.

[sajal]

Hi,

this is bad news for me.
i am testing kayako for my company, along with few issues (like ssl email) which i cant solve so far, i was trying out the live chat feature... in the backend(staff area) i couldnt find a live chat option (just figured web based chat client for staff doesnt exist yet)... flash based client wouldnt be that difficult?

I dont want to go thru the pain of installing vmware + windows just to be able to test this product. If the linux admins cant use/test the software, how would they implement it within the organization?

Implementation cost for live response = no of live chat staff * price of windows. Even if kayako reimburses me for the windows license i wouldnt switch.

[Brent]

MAC plus http://www.parallels.com = Kayako on your MAC...

So basically only Linux loses out....

The world is not Linux or Mac - Its PC - and will be - I use them all and if you are a muti app company it is incredibly hard not to have to use PC... when that changes and thus the marketplace changes... then I would be on the bandwagon to ask for a muti OS version...

But by then google will have bought Kayako and it will all be web based anyway and it will no longer matter..

[sajal]

Linux mostly runs on PC.
if i use vmware to load up windows only to use the kayako... it makes the computer very slow. + there is additional windows license fee to worry about.

say if i intend to have 50 staff with 50 computers to attend to the live chat... the price of 50 copies of windows would be above current turnover :-)

but as they said.. they are working on web based for the next version (will be shopping around for a better cross platform solution until then)

[twhiting9275]

but as they said.. they are working on web based for the next version (will be shopping around for a better cross platform solution until then)

Web based will be a step down, honestly.
Why?

Currently, the application resides in the systray, or can be minimized , out of view unless necessary to be viewed (ie: you have a chat).

With a web based setup, you must keep a browser window open at all times, and you run the risk of having that window taken over. Howso? Well, let's say you receive an email with a link in it (forum thread link, whatever), and you CLICK on said link. What's going to happen? You are going to open that in a BROWSER. In said browser, you will either navigate away from the window you're browsing, open up a new tab, or just open up a new window. When you're done with that, insticts are to CLOSE the browser. OOPS, there goes your login session and your chats.

Doing this the way it CURRENTLY is done works, developers just have to get out of the "we must develop for Windows only" mindset. Seriously, use Java. Don't isolate those that don't want to run windows just because YOU don't want to learn to program properly (and by properly I mean for MULTIPLE environments). It CAN be done, very easily.

[Jamie Edwards]

Being very experienced and professional C++ programmers (in fact, all-round programmers) learning Java would not be an issue.

However, the majority of our customers use Windows and are happy with the development choice, developing on Windows as a platform (not just a choice of operating system).

A web based solution for those who do not use Windows will be provided. JavaScript is very powerful, and measures can be taken to prevent 'Window capture' as you have described. Although now the 'perfect desktop solution', it can be made very rich using JavaScript.

[neil_aql]

Thanks for providing for those of us who don't/can't/won't use windows
Looking forward to seeing the web-based version

[potato]

Very funny, i have a feeling like i am on the modernbill forum. (people who use modernbill and ever needed their forum for information will know what i mean )
How many threads i found with request to port the app to a linux/mac version?
Man, and still always the same answer: to litlle demand.

And so if you dont port the app, why dont you do a little effort and inform the users about this, make suggestions about alternatives like wine or parallels and the app, etc...

I tried it with wine & crossover on fedora 6 & 7 & macosx. Nothing works!
Why you guys dont look for the problem that causes this? litlle effort and many customers will be happy not to be pushed towards windows.

I always have the same situation when i try to install the livesupport app with wine or crossover:
The installation works fine, no problem, but when i startup the app it loads for a moment and dissapears completely. App closed. I dont know enough to figure out what's wrong, but i have (had) many progs running with wine & crossover without any problem.

So PLEASE have a look so that you windows app runs with wine or crossover on linux. Once you find that litlle devil in your app, you can adapt your future programming to it, and nobody will complain ever because they can at least run it on the OS of their choice.

I hope i get some response on this, its really not that bad idea, and for you guys a little effort to search for the problem that causes the disfunctionality on wine or crossover.

greetings,
tom

[jonathanjab]

The only way I've managed to get it to work on Linux is to use VMware to install a copy of Windows onto the system and run it inside that. Does have a few added advantages, but you do need the system to run it! :-/

[Netmaking]

Are there any news on this issue?

[craigbrass]

The AJAX based one will be implemented with V4. Kayako don't give dates when new versions will be available to avoid dissappointment if they are missed. All Jamie (operations manager) has said is it is "some time off yet".

[Netmaking]

How about releasing the software on the schedueled dates as a means to avoid disappointment?

There must be some information available about the release? Will it be out this month? This year? Sometime this decade?

I've just spent a couple of hours going through the code, as it would be really easy to hack something like this together for myself, but the code doesn't seem to be all that reusable.

[Jamie Edwards]

A Linux client (InstaAlert or otherwise) is not scheduled for release. A web based interface to visitor monitoring and chat solution will come part of V4, but this is not timetabled - it is impossible to timetable anything that doesn't yet have a definite specification.